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avg hours paddled each day (Read 5881 times)
08/13/06 at 18:41:00

Ken   Offline
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Curious to know how many hours most people paddled each day of the race. I plan on entering next year in a mens tandem canoe. Is a racing canoe best for this type of race and would kevlar be safe to use on the Mo. river.  Thanks for any suggestions.
 
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Reply #1 - 08/13/06 at 20:45:26
Scott   Ex Member

 
Ken,

I'm hoping some race veterans will chime in, but as an observer I saw a variety of strategies.  West Hansen stopped only for water, 20 minutes of fog and to help push the lead powerboat off the mud after the storm.  Otherwise, he was paddling.  53 hours and 40 minutes later, he was done.

Katie paddled the first 24 hours but then decided to paddle daylight only.  She took a couple of breaks to meet with reporters.  Finished in 98 hours.

Edie and Christina slept the first night on land but then paddled every night, taking 2 hour naps here and there when needed.  Finished in 100 hours.

Bryan Hopkins strategy was to paddle as far as he could without rest and then see where the competition was.  This worked until an accidental 6 hour "nap" left him in 3rd place with lots of ground to make up.

If you go to the home page and click on the paddler's names you will see that some of them have posted their race journals that give good details of how their strategies played out.  The following have submitted journals so far.

Christina and Edie
Katie
Bryan Hopkins
Don Wilkison
Travis and John

Kevlar is fine on the Missouri.  There were 3 or 4 kevlar boats out there this year and all did well.

Looking forward to meeting you at next year's race.

Scott
 
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Reply #2 - 08/14/06 at 17:47:38

West Hansen   Offline
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He who hesitates is lunch.
--Chuck Darwin
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Here are my times, as logged by my bank crew. I spent what I consider to be a considerable amount of time at each stop. With cooler weather and the increased knowledge I have of the river, I'll spend less time at each stop next year.
Kaw Point - start 8 a.m.
La Benite - 9:38 a.m.
Fort Osage - 11:35 a.m.
Napoleon - 12:35 p.m.
Lexington - 2:15 p.m.
Waverly - 5:30 p.m.
Miami - in at 9:25 p.m., out at 10:05 p.m. Spent alot of time eating, drinking and socializing.
Glascow - 1:30 a.m. following big thunderstorm
Arrowhead Rock - 7:50 a.m.
Franklin - 10:30 a.m. stopped for 20 minutes
Taylor Landing - 11:45 a.m.
Cooper's Landing - left at 2:00 p.m.
Hartsburg - in at 3:30, out at 4:30 - 45 minute nap
Noren - 6:45 p.m. quick stop
Mokane - 9:30 p.m.
Portland - 11:20 p.m. following barge hallucinations that cost 20 - 30 minutes
Herman - out at 2:30 a.m.
New Haven - 5:50 a.m., feeling good after 20 minute nap on rocks en route
Washington City - 7:50 a.m., still feeling good
Weldon Springs - 11:03 a.m.
Finish - 53:40 hours total, including sloppy times and sleep.
--West
 

Cognitive Dissonance: when being wrong just isn't an option.
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Reply #3 - 08/14/06 at 17:52:12

West Hansen   Offline
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He who hesitates is lunch.
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Next year, I'll probably go in a Tandem Unlimited class kevlar/carbon boat. The lightest boat possible is good for the MR 340, as there is nothing to hit. --West
 

Cognitive Dissonance: when being wrong just isn't an option.
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Reply #4 - 08/15/06 at 07:48:51

Katie   Offline
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After the first day of logging 105 miles, I had to average about 67 miles/day.  Depending on the wind and barges, 70 - 80 miles is a full day's worth of paddling during the daylight hours (6am - 9pm). Smiley
 
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Reply #5 - 08/16/06 at 11:50:21

chuck and di   Offline
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West- what is a "Tandem unlimited class carbon boat?" Do you mean you'll paddle it solo or go tandem next year?
     I did a few runs in the Findeisen, solo, and despite the weight (65 pounds) it was faster than my 22 pound downriver boat.
     As for times- we're working on it. I do know our MPH went down each day- especially the last 40 miles- we only made 5.5 mph! (Day one was 8.5 mph).
     Could you give any advice on nutrition? We did something very wrong- maybe too much electrolytes! Last 40 miles I couldn't eat or drink anything without getting sick.
 

If you find yourself suddenly smack dab in the middle of hell, stopping is not an option.
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Reply #6 - 08/16/06 at 12:46:38

Manitou Paddler   Offline
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For what it is worth:

I paddled 130 miles before the storm forced me off the water (2 hours of fitful sleep) and then pushed on to do a total of 210 miles before got too loopy to continue (4 hours sleep) and then paddled on for a total of 290 miles...then planned to sleep 2 hours...screwed up and slept 6...then freaked (Marek had passed me while I dozed) and paddled hard for the final miles.  All sleeping was in the late hours of the night around 2-4 a.m.  My thoughts for next year are to have support for sure and perhaps do cat naps (30-40 minutes) to reprogram my brain as needed....easy to do in the day...but hard to keep sleep down to a short time at night....my hope is a support crew can put a fork in me and get me back on the water...I noticed that little naps was all West Hansen allowed himself. ...I slept a total 12 hours...too much??  I cant see not sleeping some...but do feel this was too much.  

Daily milage is so dependent on conditions...day two was cool (after the storm) with light winds...but head winds later made a daily milage goal somewhat a mute point.  This time of year (August) I typically encounter head winds on the river...a tail wind on day one was kinda unusual...but in Missouri...the weather can literally be anything...here we are two weeks after the race and the low last night was in the low 60's...I would have been unprepared for that on the race and would have been very cold if I stopped moving.

Perhaps a really interesting subject for this site would be what the racers would do different for next year...you know: lessons learned, etc.  (what do you think Scott?)   I would like to know what the other racers have chewed over now that we have all recovered (perhaps not all....Don how is your sunburn!!?)...and nutrition strategies interests me...I made a big batch of venison jerky just before the race and on a whim I put that in the boat (along with the kitchen sink...too much wieght!!)...turns out it was the only food I actually wanted to eat...I had to force everything else down (including fluids) in a clinical manner...knowing I had to refuel the engine...and the thought of warm gatoraide still makes my stomach turn as I write this....I did lots of powerbar..goo's with electrolytes...what did others do?

Bryan
 

river is as river does
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Reply #7 - 08/16/06 at 13:05:07
Scott   Ex Member

 
I think that's a great idea for a topic.  And by the way, you guys can start new threads and topics with the click of a button. 

Bryan, please do add me to the email list for your organization.  The paddler's trail is brilliant.
 
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Reply #8 - 08/16/06 at 13:05:10

Katie   Offline
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I ate powerbars and other condensed carbs but those made me sick after the first day.  My absolute favorite food on the river was apples.  They were lower maintenance than oranges (no peeling), I could eat them on the river (big plus), and they stayed good throughout the trip (for the most part...lower your standards just in case).  Honestly my appetite decreased and I ate less than normal.  This isn't ideal for long term but I didn't experience any signs that my body was significantly deficient in vitamins and minerals.
 
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Reply #9 - 08/16/06 at 14:43:19

West Hansen   Offline
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He who hesitates is lunch.
--Chuck Darwin
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For some really good advice and for even more discussion I recommend y'all look at the "canoe and kayak racing" of the following bulletin board: http://www.luv2paddle.com/cgi-bin/forums/default.asp
We get off subject a bit, but cover some serious subject such as technique, gear and food for the Texas Water Safari.
That said, re: food and appetite: I'm not a nutritionist, but have found that excercise increases blood sugar levels, which brings down your appetite. After several years of long distance paddling, I've gotten pretty good at eating when I'm not hungry, however I've raced with folks who have set their watches to beep every thirty minutes or so to remind them to take a couple of bites and to drink.
I strongly recommend eating some triglycerides every few hours. The low heart rates that we're putting out on the MR 340 demand fat to burn. Most carbohydrates are wasted and suck up much needed fluids for digestion. I rely upon beef jerky, Dinty Moore Chicken and Dumplings, a Powerbar now and then strong recovery drink mixes and heavy electrolye drink mixes. I've also found Ensure Plus to be quite helpful.
The electrolytes I drink make regular gatorade look like water. I've never overdosed on electrolytes, with the belief that sodium and potassium will easily pass through the nephron tubules once your blood levels are saturated. The glomerulus in your kidneys, I belief, is used to farm out or dispense of the needed nutrients for your body. This year, I discovered "E-Load" mixes and the heavily caloric Hammergel recovery drink mixes. I mix the Hammergel orange cream powder with Tang in a bike bottle to make a dreamsickle flavored drink that gives me almost 600 easily digested calories.
Stay away from ingesting iron-rich foods and drinks. They sap hydration and could clog up your colon, unless your normally iron-deficient.
Definitely take comfort food. Katie got it right with the apples, though they don't offer much for race fuel, it's best to get something down the gullet than nothing. I ate an apple the first day and some canteloupe the second day. I also take Altoids along for a bit of a breath freshener and picker upper.
Most importantly and oddly enough, when you're feeling nauseous I recommend doing exactly what you don't want to do: eat. I recommend beef jerky or something else that's not sweet tasting. You'll feel better in a few minutes, then begin to eat some more. Don't drink anything sweet, but stick with straight water if you're feeling sick.
Drugs: do them. No Doz works for me, but only temporarily, so I usually wait until I've exhausted all other efforts i.e. splashing face, singing loudly, sprinting, etc... Make sure to eat a large meal before taking any caffiene due to it's appetite supressing qualities. Prescription meds, such as Provigil work for some folks and have less gastrointestinal anamolies than caffiene or other methylxanthenes.
Eventually, those who do strong drugs to stay away eventually crash - and hard - so if you must sleep then I recommend power naps. Don't spend anytime getting comfortable; this will only make you want to nap longer. You're not trying to rest your body, just your noggin. Twenty to forty-five minutes is all you need, so get off your duff as soon as your timer starts beeping and get paddling. Don't eat on the bank, since this can be done while drifting. Get your warm gear out before you nap, because you'll be freezing as soon as you awake, since your body isn't generating the same heat as when you laid down.
Also, I noticed alot of folks double bladed the entire distance. I've found double blading works very well for short distance races (100 miles or less), but has a diminishing return per output for longer races. Get good at single blading and double blading, then switch out as needed. Work on an efficient stroke, i.e. don't bend your arms at the elbow when using either paddle. Get good at twisting to use lats, torso for the stroke. You'll last longer.
Chuck and Di, a tandem unlimited class boat is an open hulled canoe with a rudder. It's typically 24-26 feet long with a slightly flared midship for secondary stability. The adjustable seats and foot braces sit higher than a kayak seat in order to obtain a more powerful and efficient stroke. I'll drag some other victim along with me in a tandem boat next year, however we might just use a Pro Boat or USCA C-2.
I'm not surpised your Findeisen is faster than the downriver boat, due to it's rounded hull and elongated volume profile. The downriver boat relies upon width for volume, despite the skinny waterline, the width to length ratio is much greater that the K-2.
Whew, my fingers are tired... ---West
 

Cognitive Dissonance: when being wrong just isn't an option.
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Reply #10 - 08/16/06 at 14:51:53

brwa175   Offline
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re: sunburns.  the belly burn has mostly finished peeling.  the 2nd degree burns on top of the foot were actually pretty quick to heal, was able to begin the treatment once in herman and skin there seems to regenerate pretty quickly.  was able to limit these to the knob above the big toe and little toes, mostly on the left foot (don't know why, maybe sun angle, or way i rested my foot.)  i had a sunscreen fabricated from ripstop nylon (tent material) but found that if this was wet and touching my skin then I may as well train a magnifying glass on my skin.  once i saw the burns, put on socks and eliminated them from getting worse.  also began to wear long-sleeved shirt over my 15 block t-shirt.  wasn't the most comfortable, but i really didn't want to end up looking like a radish out there.

re: food.  i know i have a lot to learn about how to fuel your body for this event, but i think maybe i was ingesting too much protein by way of powerbars.  i had all varieties and flavors and they all stank after a while.   my reasoning is usually is something doesn't taste good to you then there's a reason for it, but then again after a couple of days of doing this, maybe your biochemistry is already starting to whack out.

i drank more gatorade in those 4 days than i did all of last year, but it seemed to work, plus copious amounts of water.  did limit my caffeine intake to only 1 heavy-duty dose of expresso which may have helped to fend off dehydration, but it wasn't enough to stop me from dozing off at the helm more than once.   this was about 1/2 my normal intake of caffeine.

made sure i took mult- and b-vitamins and zinc every day.  seemed to be able to pass through the days w/o getting a cold which fortunate considering the stress, lack of sleep, and potential contact with bacT given the water temps and stormwater inputs along most of the route.  

next year, if i could grab some fresh fruit at a stop i think it'd make my day.  someone handed me a banana at some point and it was about the best thing i tasted out there except when on day 4 i found my homemade dried fruit that had been squirelled away in the dry sack. what a blessing. dried missouri peaches and washington cherries.

if you like peaches you might want to check out:
Epitaph for a Peach
four seasons on my family farm
by Mas Masumoto
1995 Harper Collins

There's a saying among peach growers that one should never own a ladder, but what I like to say is that 'you can't carry a properly ripened peach across the room without bruising it."  now that's a juicy fruit.
 

However, truth is a reasonable substitute.
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Reply #11 - 08/16/06 at 15:24:03

chuck and di   Offline
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     Wow! This is a good thread! This was my first EVER flatwater race. We used to joke about how wussy flat water racing was (Wildwater  racing is pure adrenalin) I never would have considered this race had not Di broken her ankle in the Black Canyon.
     I have to admit- I like it! I think Di and I did everything there was to do- WRONG- from our walmart headlamps to our nutrition- but we have learned many lessons. As a Buddhist vegetarian- the beef jerky sounds WAY too enticingly nice......And the apple is such a good idea. I'm listening to what West has to say with reverance. I would suspect we both have similar training histories (I used to do daily doubles, and trained 100 miles/ week) and I've trained for the last 20 years-but all for a 20 minute all out sprint in Cl-III-IV rapids.  West is the distance Guru in my book and I am writing it all down. I'm even thinking of getting a fast solo flatwater boat!
 

If you find yourself suddenly smack dab in the middle of hell, stopping is not an option.
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Reply #12 - 08/16/06 at 20:15:31

West Hansen   Offline
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He who hesitates is lunch.
--Chuck Darwin
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C and D:
Y'all's Findesion is pretty fast and comfy. I had a Findieson seat in my unlimited boat during the MR 340, plus two layers of Ridgerest sleeping pad foam. Give me some warning if y'all can make it down to Texas and I'll get a few flatwater boats for y'all to test out for a weekend. As for vegetarianism - I pretty much treat other species as I expect to be treated, plus I only eat species that are vegetarians. One of my favorite bumper stickers: I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants.
How about smoked salmon? It's like jerky and salmon are kind of like vegetables. Ever tried to have a conversation with one? --West
 

Cognitive Dissonance: when being wrong just isn't an option.
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Reply #13 - 08/17/06 at 10:20:42

Manitou Paddler   Offline
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Hey All

Very good advice/observations from West...my problem is I abuse caffeine on a daily basis...and so I am likely immune to its positive effects...I need it just to survive!!!

FYI:  I stumbled upon a race that might interest you all...the cool thing is the 4th place this year was a solo female and she did the race in 46 hours (420 miles on the Yukon...with only 5 checkpoints) ...simply amazing...granted the river is almost twice the current speed of the Missouri...but current is not everything.  You can check out this marathon canoe/kayak race at:

http://www.yukonriverquest.com/

It is interesting that they define their boat classes very carefully...to avoid overly tippy race boats (surf ski's and the like)...the area is remote and the water is cold...so they view it as a safety concern.  I am on the fence about if this would be good for the Mo river 340...I kinda like the idea of using any craft you can paddle....who knows we could see some really weird boats for the race in the coming years... with out riggers, wind faring, etc..

I think I will always want to do the race in a traditional touring kayak...for retro grouch reasons...however I must admit that I have thought of what kind of bizarre skin on frame racing out rigger boat I could build for the race....mad scientist stuff.

Cant believe how much this race has gotten under my skin...cant stop thinking about it....it was very cool....I have romanticized all the pain...can we do another one next week???!!!



 

river is as river does
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Reply #14 - 08/17/06 at 10:50:23

Manitou Paddler   Offline
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Update on the Yukon Quest...Just found out from Scott ...that they require two manditory layovers...a 3 and 7 hour (sleep and rest time)...that time is not included in the final time....manditory sleeping...what wimps

Ok...I feel better now...must admit I got out a calculator to figure there average speed in the Yukon race and was floored....but alas they were off the water for 10 hours and resting...so add 10 hours to thier time and the fact that they actually did sleep...not quite the same.

Bryan

 

river is as river does
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Reply #15 - 08/17/06 at 17:45:32

chuck and di   Offline
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     Actually Di and I have been looking at the Yukon Race ourselves. We've always wanted to go to Alaska Anyway- and even though this is undoubtedly a girly-man race compared to the Mo340 (mandatory sleep????What's that?) we'd like to try it. We boat all season in the ozarks- so as long as it ain't brinell hardness one- we're up for it.
    Maybe we could form a caraVan next year! I'm up for it. The Mo Racing team?
     As for Caffiene- if you don't have a support crew that makes you "French Pressed Coffee" in the am., (Wonder how much West paid those guys?) you have to do a no-doz to stave off the caffiene withdrawls...At least for me this is not a pretty sight.
     Under your skin Hopkins? I've had dreams about this every other night- what's up with that?   Chuck (the one who was with Di).

     Nuts! Just looked at the website. Our boat isn't acceptable.
     
 

If you find yourself suddenly smack dab in the middle of hell, stopping is not an option.
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Reply #16 - 08/17/06 at 20:46:29

West Hansen   Offline
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He who hesitates is lunch.
--Chuck Darwin
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Re: the Yukon, the Seward Passat seems to be the tandem boat of choice that fits their category. We always have a group of vicitms from Texas going up for the race. Our top mixed team bailed out halfway this year do to a freak cold front that dipped the temps well below 90 degrees. Generally speaking, we reserve those kinds of temperatures for bottles of beer and Mexican martinis.

My racing partner, Richard Steppe, won the mixed class last year, while a couple of Safari racers won the male canoe class.

If you're serious about the Yukon, I'll hook you up with Richard, as he drives up to it every year. As for the water speed, it's very fast. Another race partner, Ian Adamson, set the Guiness world's record three times on the course for distance paddled in 24 hours on moving water. The snow melt causes some major flow. The land whips by pretty quickly. --West
 

Cognitive Dissonance: when being wrong just isn't an option.
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Reply #17 - 08/17/06 at 20:57:42
Scott   Ex Member

 
I hear you Chuck, on those river dreams.  It has slowed a bit now, but at first I had vivid dreams every night about being out there.  I would wake up and be standing next to my bed trying to figure out where the Kaw Warrior was so I could go find Christina and Edie.  Had to talk myself down a few times by saying out loud:

"The race is over.  Everyone's off the water.  Everyone's alive."

Things are better now.

Scott
 
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Reply #18 - 08/18/06 at 07:14:00

Katie   Offline
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I kicked my covers off the bed the other night and thought to myself, "dang, now they're in the river."  Day 12 after the race and my thoughts still revert back to being on the river, in the kayak...  isn't that similar to surviving a traumatic event and every time you close your eyes to go back to the scene of the crash   Undecided
 
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Reply #19 - 08/18/06 at 07:14:55

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I told Alma (my wife) about the Yukon race...not seriously thinking about entering it...too far to drive...too many unknowns....etc.

All she had to say was "when is it?"...and then: "why aren't you gonna do it?"

Crap...excuse #1 promptly eliminated (I am sure I will be able to come up with more!!)

So I will let that squirm in my head for a while and who knows, maybe I will be interested (or, compelled) in a road trip up that way.... One issue is they are first come first served and have more race applicants than they have slots.... Hell they may be full up already.

with two kids...who are my #1 priority ...it can be hard to do all the things I would like...however, I have been to Alaska and it was awesome (did a few rivers up there),...very, very cold water (all snow melt) and remote..one of the few places where I felt that I was for sure not at the top of the food chain!!! (every sandbar was littered in bear tracks -all bigger than my out stretched hands...I was mainly there for fishing and we actually wore side arms when out of the boats in camp or fishing the river from shore.  The moose freaked me out more than anything else...they will be standing in the river...and will not budge and if a calf is around...look out...they get pissed!..picture a grouchy horse with weapons on its head.

Keep me informed of plans...by the way Chuck and Di...I have a buddy who guides on the upper Missouri River and perhaps he would let me borrow one of his current designs double kayaks (fiberglass layup, nice boats)...so who knows, if this all comes together...I could maybe help to get you both in a boat that meets the race criteria....however, I personally would never enter a race like this in a boat that I had not spent alot of time in...so this may not be useful..."best laid plans of mice and men" et al.

Bryan
 

river is as river does
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